TnT

[xten]

Ever just have one of those nights? I sucked.Weather sucked. In the 80's, very high humidity.My truck runs best around 160* and first time through the staging lanes it was at 185, and went downhill from there. I was tired from work and was falling asleep on the way to the track. Red lighted, slept at the tree,short shifted 1st TWICE, bounced it off the rev limiter TWICE in 2nd. Kept tightening up right rear shock and it kept gettin worse to the point of blowin the tires off the last run. Best run I cuuld manage all night was 11.91 @ 114 without spray.BUT.... I didn't break anything, didn't get hurt, and didn't wreck! So... I guess it's true. A bad night of racing IS better than a good day at work! lol

[88LT1Blazer]

Just don't give up. You will have another day to work it some more. Better luck next time.

Try to get some rest before you go back to the track!!

[mytmouz]

As long as nothing broke, it's all good...

[406shark]

Ever just have one of those nights? I sucked.Weather sucked. In the 80's, very high humidity.My truck runs best around 160* and first time through the staging lanes it was at 185, and went downhill from there. I was tired from work and was falling asleep on the way to the track. Red lighted, slept at the tree,short shifted 1st TWICE, bounced it off the rev limiter TWICE in 2nd. Kept tightening up right rear shock and it kept gettin worse to the point of blowin the tires off the last run. Best run I cuuld manage all night was 11.91 @ 114 without spray.BUT.... I didn't break anything, didn't get hurt, and didn't wreck! So... I guess it's true. A bad night of racing IS better than a good day at work! lol

All in all it sounds like you had a good time. Can't beat an evening of racing, and you don't have to replace any boken parts.


Jeff

[434 smallblock]

As long as nothing broke, it's all good...

Yes sir this is true :rock:

[85ss]

At least you had brakes!!!! :laughoutloud:

Its all fun...
Better luck next time Phil...

[xten]

At least you had brakes!!!! :laughoutloud:

Its all fun...
Better luck next time Phil...

Good point, Jeremy. Something we all take for granted. I know you'll get yours figured out. Very curious to find out what it was.
Hey, Jeff, remember I thought tightening up the shocks was the "answer" to my launch and 60's? Well now I'm really confused. On the way home the kid said alot of the cars that usually hook were blowin the tires off because of the heat and track prep or lack thereof. He said don't change the settings for first run next time and we'll go from there. What do you guys think? Sound logical? Now tranny is starting to flare 3rd, so its goin to the shop. Buddy says accumulater spring or check ball. Supposed to be common when you pound on a 700R4.idk.
Kent, rest is very hard to come by nowdays. I'm starting to question if there's still 24 hrs in a day! lol

[85ss]

I'm starting to question if there's still 24 hrs in a day! lol

Ain't that the truth!

[soopertrucker]

The one thing I found out is if your tired more than likely its gonna be a $hitty night even if you dont break anything. But I understand the die hard mentality, believe me. Better luck next time and get some rest.

[xten]

Hey thanks guys.Soopertrucker you hit the nail on the head.It seems like all the planets must be in alignment for me to get to the track.If I don't have to work late, it's rainin.So even if I'm cashed and I don't have to work late and it ain't rainin, I'm goin. That's where the die hard mentality just kinda takes over.I just wish I had my wits about me. I wasted a good and rare (for me) opportunity. Not to mention fuel in the tow rig and the time to get the truck ready, loaded and to the track.

[Randy 406]

Hey, Jeff, remember I thought tightening up the shocks was the "answer" to my launch and 60's? Well now I'm really confused. On the way home the kid said alot of the cars that usually hook were blowin the tires off because of the heat and track prep or lack thereof. He said don't change the settings for first run next time and we'll go from there. What do you guys think?

That is a good indication of a bad track, and bad data. I always try to get an idea of how others are doing. What shocks do you have? Where are they adjusted? what tires?

[xten]

That is a good indication of a bad track, and bad data. I always try to get an idea of how others are doing. What shocks do you have? Where are they adjusted? what tires?

The shocks are QA1 single, 12 way.
1st run l-3 r-6
2nd l-3 r-7
3rd l-3 r-8
Tire: BFG 275/50/15 12 lbs
60's were off, best of 1.67 on first run.
Randy the main thing I was trying to do was keep the right from squatting and twisting so bad. When it squats it hooks, but with the heat and the track, when I got it to come out even, it spun the tires bad. It never did that before.
This pic is 2nd (L-3 R7) launch. It seemed to be getting better but 60'ed @ 1.69

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad144/x10v8/S10PICS001.jpg

[Randy 406]

Ok, first thing I see is those rims are to narrow for those tires. Second, I never run a 275 60 with less then 16.5 psi. With a radial, the low pressure causes the center of the tire to bow up, and leaves you running on the outer edges only. I think the BFG's like more pressure then most, around 18, give or take a psi.

Before my ARB I tried staggering the shocks to compensate the twist. It was with QA1 SA's also but, I never went more the 2 clicks between them. I'm afraid you are killing yourself with the adjustments. Rule of thumb; If you spin right at the hit loosen extension(rebound), if you hook at first then spin a few feet out, tighten extension. You really need to stop the twist another way, and keep the shocks the same. I don't even stagger the Cal Tracs on mine.

There is a link in the "Help my launch" thread for an affordable ARB on e-bay, and it looks decent.

Side note: I was told a leafspring vehicle doesn't need an ARB. This may be true on a wider platform. But, the S-10's are narrow, and the shocks are close together. Making it harder to control the body roll.

[Randy 406]

Another thing I noticed, and it may just be the pic. The driver side tire is wrinkling, and the passenger is not. If the pic is accurate, it shows how your shock adjustment, has allowed more down force one side then the other.

[xten]

Hey thanks Randy. Not that it matters but the tires are 50's. lol. I'll try more pressure. I'll get the shocks closer. When it spun,it bit first, then let loose.Do you think I should tighten the left side to get them closer to each other, or go down on the right one? QA1 said 3 and 6 as a starting point for footbrake. I'm also gonna treat the tires with Formula V before I go up again. I also made a set of adjustable leaf links.Don't know if that would help. That's pretty much just pinyon angle adjustment. I'll look through that thread for the arb.Thanks again. I'm hopin it spun because of the track, never did that before. But I still need to get the 60's down.

[xten]

Another thing I noticed, and it may just be the pic. The driver side tire is wrinkling, and the passenger is not. If the pic is accurate, it shows how your shock adjustment, has allowed more down force one side then the other.

I really don't think it's the pic.I noticed that too.That pic is a freeze frame from a vid, and I went through it frame by frame, and that's what's goin on. Do you think that might be the leaf links or the shocks?Both?

[Camgrinder]

Side note: I was told a leafspring vehicle doesn't need an ARB. This may be true on a wider platform. But, the S-10's are narrow, and the shocks are close together. Making it harder to control the body roll.

I believe this. Cars with leaf springs moved inboard seem to like more than normal preload on the passenger side.

[Randy 406]

I'm trying to figure if the shorter sidewall will make it bow, up more, or less. None the less 12 psi is really low!
Your taxing my old brain for memory recall here! But if I remember correctly, the SA's have more impact on extension then compression. So, if you initially hooked then spun, you want to slow the seperation in the rear. which means to tighten the shocks. Also you need to consider what's going on in the front. If it rises too fast, and tops out the travel, it will cause the truck to nose over, and unload the rear.

[Randy 406]

I don't see any traction device on that truck, after further review. ;)

[Camgrinder]

We need an at rest pic. To see if its getting any separation in the rear. Looks like the tire is going up in the wheelwell ?

[xten]

I'm trying to figure if the shorter sidewall will make it bow, up more, or less. None the less 12 psi is really low!
Your taxing my old brain for memory recall here! But if I remember correctly, the SA's have more impact on extension then compression. So, if you initially hooked then spun, you want to slow the seperation in the rear. which means to tighten the shocks. Also you need to consider what's going on in the front. If it rises too fast, and tops out the travel, it will cause the truck to nose over, and unload the rear.It looks like that's what's happening now, but only since I stiffened the shocks up. So... I might want to stiffen the left side to get the shocks closer to each other? I could also put more pre load in the right link bar as Camgrinder(thanks, camgrinder!) said. Think that might help? Man, this is a whole new ballgame! I was really happy with the way it launched, but I want better. If I start spraying it, I have to make this better. I guess I'm gonna have alota trial and error in front of me, but thanks to you guys, I've got some solid things to try and think about already!

[Diabolical]

Not to brag.. But this is what I love about this board..
EVERYONE is here to help.. not like most boards out there that I have seen..
Makes it all worth while.

[Randy 406]

What exactly is the link bar you keep mentioning? Another thing to consider is somtimes you spin because of applying too little power. So, the spray may hit the tires harder, and keep the front up.

[Randy 406]

Not to brag.. But this is what I love about this board..
EVERYONE is here to help.. not like most boards out there that I have seen..
Makes it all worth while.

My goal is to get every S-10 on 275 drag radials pulling 1.2x 60's. ;)

[Diabolical]

Sweet!

[Camgrinder]

I had the M/T 255/60's on the Nova for a while. With some CE front shocks, the front end would come up too fast and fall (not enough power to keep it up). Then the back tire would spin as soon as the nose dropped. I put in some of the Calvert shocks that slowed down the rise and it kept the car from jumping around. Went from 1.58 60 foot to 1.49's.

[xten]

What exactly is the link bar you keep mentioning? Another thing to consider is somtimes you spin because of applying too little power. So, the spray may hit the tires harder, and keep the front up.
These are leaf links.
Saw these on a Sox and Martin car years ago. They're home made.I can preload the right one more if you think it would help Randy. It launches straight and goes straight down the track, that's why I didn't want to mess with them.That's why I put the shocks on.
Hmmm.....1.2 60 ft? I'd throw a hand grenade at my family reunion for 1.2 60's!

[Randy 406]

So many overlook the fact both ends have to work together. The smaller the tire the tire the more critical it is!

[Camgrinder]

I have seen that done with a housing floater and another bar running from the lower spring plate to the spring eye. Kinda like a 4 link deal.

How do you keep the leaf from wrapping up? Did you load it with clamps up front?

[xten]

I had the M/T 255/60's on the Nova for a while. With some CE front shocks, the front end would come up too fast and fall (not enough power to keep it up). Then the back tire would spin as soon as the nose dropped. I put in some of the Calvert shocks that slowed down the rise and it kept the car from jumping around. Went from 1.58 60 foot to 1.49's.

That could be a big part of the problem.If I could get a vid on here it would explain alot. They're loaded into my computer into the camera program That I'm waiting for a friend to come and show me how to get them out! He said they have to be exported BACK to the camera and into another program, and THEN to you tube. WTF??? I know nothing about this stuff.

[Randy 406]

The leafs won't wrap, because the rearend will not rotate.

[xten]

I have seen that done with a housing floater and another bar running from the lower spring plate to the spring eye. Kinda like a 4 link deal.

How do you keep the leaf from wrapping up? Did you load it with clamps up front?

They used to wrap up terribly. That's why I made them, to keep the springs from wrapping up. The front rod ends are bolted to a bracket (boxed housing) on the frame so they can't wrap up. I guess the pics aren't very good.I always meant to clamp the fronts but never did.That reminds me, I ordered clamps from the spring shop months ago! They were supposed to call when they came in. Guess they forgot!Thanks man!

[Randy 406]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around this set-up (it could be clear as day). Every traction aid I've ever dealt with in leafspring app., has required rearend rotation to apply it. My CalTracs work because, the twisting action of the rearend transfer pressure to top of the leafspring, and in turn leverages the tire into the asphalt. Your set-up "appears" to lock the rear in place. The best I can figure, is it creates a pulling effect on the frame mount, causing weight transfer.

I'm not knocking your set-up, I think it's neat as Hell!! But remember Sox and Martin made alot more HP, and had 4 speeds. They were knocking the snot out of that rear suspension.

[xten]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around this set-up (it could be clear as day). Every traction aid I've ever dealt with in leafspring app., has required rearend rotation to apply it. My CalTracs work because, the twisting action of the rearend transfer pressure to top of the leafspring, and in turn leverages the tire into the asphalt. Your set-up "appears" to lock the rear in place. The best I can figure, is it creates a pulling effect on the frame mount, causing weight transfer.

I'm not knocking your set-up, I think it's neat as Hell!! But remember Sox and Martin made alot more HP, and had 4 speeds. They were knocking the snot out of that rear suspension.

Thanks Randy. That was about 40 yrs ago and I never forgot that setup. I was 18 and saw that cuda on the bumper, and I had to go crawl around under it! Almost got me beat up and thrown out, but Ronnie Sox turned out to be a great guy! Yeah ALOT more HP and they were killin those leafs. It hit the tires so hard you could feel it in the ground.I live in Western Pa and the roads are terrible, so I can't have anything hanging down. It's a street driven truck. That's why I did what I did. Besides, I was really curious to see if they'd work, and they made a huge improvement over the way it was.
Just wanted to say that I really appreciate the time and insight into this. Got smoke comin outa my ears thinkin about what to do, and I'm sure with better track prep and applying the suggestions, I'll be busy the next time I get the opportunity to get to the track.

[xten]

We need an at rest pic. To see if its getting any separation in the rear. Looks like the tire is going up in the wheelwell ?

Do you mean something like this Camgrinder?

[Randy 406]

I've seen your roads up there. Been to Blairsville, and Maple Grove. Now what you need to do is incorperate your, top mount bars, with a spring eye pivot, to produce down force on the tires. hmmm

[Camgrinder]

Looks like you are getting zero separation. The tire looks higher up in the wheel well than at rest. Can you post up the video?

Love the paint.

[xten]

Looks like you are getting zero separation. The tire looks higher up in the wheel well than at rest. Can you post up the video?

Love the paint.Thanks, Camgrinder! Waiting for a friend to come over and show me. I put it in a program I can't get it anywhere usable, so he's gotta export it I guess back to camera and install another program that's usable.

[xten]

Camgrinder and Randy, not a good run(12.04) and the Kid was holding his 3 yr old when he took the vid! lol It's when the shocks were at L-3 and R-7 and eng temp 190. It don't like that. But it's the best one I got to see how it acts out of the hole.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC6BMdMUW94

[406shark]

Camgrinder and Randy, not a good run(12.04) and the Kid was holding his 3 yr old when he took the vid! lol It's when the shocks were at L-3 and R-7 and eng temp 190. It don't like that. But it's the best one I got to see how it acts out of the hole.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC6BMdMUW94


It sure looks like the rear is squatting down, and stays down throughout most of the run. The front shocks seems to not be allowing it to settle down once under way.


Jeff

[xten]

It sure looks like the rear is squatting down, and stays down throughout most of the run. The front shocks seems to not be allowing it to settle down once under way.


Jeff
Sure does.It's not a handful, kinda like a sunday drive. Very stable and controlable, although it may not look that way. Got any suggestions Jeff??
I was going to get the shock settings closer and more air in the tires as Randy suggested. When the shocks were set stiffer you could see the fronf come down, then back up enough to unload the rear, but it was very hot and track wasn't prepped well. So idk what would happen on a good track.

[Camgrinder]

Nice pass against a big tire Camaro. Awesome.
Yeah it is squatting in the rear. You need it to separate.
Search google for "leaf link" suspension. Whenever I saw those set ups, they always had a floater and the leafs clamped in front, and free in the rear.
Here is a good post over on hamb.
http://66.154.44.164/forum/showthread.php?p=3111188#post3111188

[xten]

Nice pass against a big tire Camaro. Awesome.
Yeah it is squatting in the rear. You need it to separate.
Search google for "leaf link" suspension. Whenever I saw those set ups, they always had a floater and the leafs clamped in front, and free in the rear.
Here is a good post over on hamb.
http://66.154.44.164/forum/showthread.php?p=3111188#post3111188

Thanks for the link Camgrinder. That was interesting. I have to call the spring shop and see if they ever got those clamps in.